Dodge Neon Engine Bay Measurments

Here are some measurements I got from my 1996 Neon, 5 speed MTX car on a flat, level concrete garage floor. Car is basically stock.

Top of strut tower to ground = 30 inches
Ground to highest part of engine (coil) = 32 inches
Strut center to strut center = 43.25 inches
Firewall to back of radiator guard = 26 inches
Drivers side rail engine mount to opposite rail (across engine) = 37.5 inches
Passenger side rail engine mount to opposite rail (across engine) = 38 inches
Ground to center of front wheel = 11 inches
Ground to engine mount rail approx 23 inches on both sides
Ground to bottom of lower a-arm frame bracket = 5 inches
Radiator is about 28 inches wide
Inside left front tire to inside right front tire = 50 inches
Width of front tires = 7 inches

Cubical engine bay measurements are approximate 38 inches wide X 26 inches length X 32 inches high. Another nice thing I like about the Neon engine is that the exhaust will be completely in the rear and not be next to the driver/passenger compartment.

Fiero Spindle MINUS Rust

Well after about 6 hours in the electrolysis bucket, here are the photos of the spindle and the brake bracket (couldn't get it off). I don't think the pictures really give the viewer a sense off how much rust was removed. About the only places on the part where some rust still existed, was in crevices and deep bends. All in all I'm very satisfied with the results and will to continue to use this method when needed. I have already gotten a bigger container to "dip" the parts into and also I have another 10 amp battery charger to be used with the 6 amp one that I experimented with to do this part.

Removing Rust From The Fiero Spindle

After removing the hub/rotor and the brake dust shield from the spindle, I was ready to submerse it in the electrolysis bath. I'm going to give it 2 hours in the "electron dip" and take it out and see how well the process works. I'm going to get a bigger (about 6 gallon container) to do other parts. The 2.5 gallon bucket that I'm currently using (see photos below) will only work with smaller parts.

Fiero Spindle Measurements

Click on photo to enlarge.


Click on photo to enlarge.

Photos of Rusty Fiero Spindle

Click on a photo to enlarge it.

Click on a photo to enlarge it.

Some measurements from the spindle:

1. Hub face to center of hole upper mount = 5.75 inches
2. Hub face to center of hole lower mount = 4.75 inches
3. Top of upper mount to bottom of lower mount = 6.25 inches
4. Bottom of lower mount to center of spindle = 1.875 inches
5. Top of upper mount center of spindle = 4.375 inches
6. Steering arm (center hole) to lower mount (center hole) = 4.625 inches

Rust-B-Gone

How do you get rust and I mean LOTS of rust off old car parts?

Answer: Electrolysis

My son and I are going to build an electrolysis tank and try out the method on the rusty Fiero spindle that I just got in the mail. I'll have to try and see if I can get the hub and rotor off along with the bearings before I dunk the spindle and later the hub/rotor into the electrolysis tank.

Pictures of our setup promised in the near future.

I've included some links below on the electrolysis process:

http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

http://vortx.chockymonster.co.uk/content/view/18/39/

http://www.bhi.co.uk/hints/rust.htm

http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/links/electrolysis_explanation.phtml

All these links and probably some more were gathered from Locostbuilders.co.uk forum and this particular topic is one of the top read and responded ones in the entire forum.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=9158&page=1

Chemical name for 'washing soda' is Sodium Carbonate, clear or whitish crystals used to 'soften' water. Should be obtainable from your local grocery or drug store.

Received My Ordered Fiero Spindle

Got home last night (Tue 1/2/07) and UPS had delivered my Fiero spindle that I had ordered on Friday 12/29/06 from Deer Creek Auto Parts located in Williamsport, OH. I didn't have time last night to take some photos of the spindle but will get some soon and post on the blog.

I'm very happy with Deer Creek Auto Parts because it was a fast delivery (less than 2 business days) and besides just getting a "plain" spindle, the part also include the hub with integrated disk brake rotor. Of course the part is rusty, but the hub did spin very freely on the spindle. I'm thinking of just ordering the right hand front spindle right away from Deer Creek Auto Parts so that I have the pair ready to go when I actually start the build. Hmmmm....

Ball joints or tie rod ends? Now I have to think about whether I want to use normal Fiero ball joints or possibly heavy duty tie rod ends on the suspension arms. I'm really leaning towards tie rod ends because of adjustability and they also seem to me to be easier to incorporate into the design of the upper suspension arm. I'm thinking of my upper front arms to look similar to this photo:

Online Suspension Geometry Calculator

Check out this online suspension geometry calculator from Racing Aspirations that allows you to see in real time the camber changes of the wheel during bump and droop. A very well done and useful tool.

Catfish Nose

I have measured some dimensions of the Neon engine and how it mounts in the Neon and have come to the conclusion that I'm going to build a "book" type chassis from the passenger compartment and forward. I will be looking to build an engine sub-frame that will attach to the front 2/3 of the chassis. The engine subframe should add only about 3-4 inches length to the standard book chassis's length so it shouldn't look too out-of-proportion from the norm.

I'm going to build a 1/4 scale model of the whole thing using balsa wood and other miniature items to replicate my build. Because I won't have the engine in front, my tranny tunnel will not have to be really wide where the bellhousing usually comes out from the engine and I'll have more space for my feet and the pedals. Also I plan on using a "Catfish" nose from Kinetic Vehicles (see photo - one on the left is the catfish style and the one on the right is the normal style). The Catfish nose is four inches shorter than the standard nose, and also three inches wider.

Thinking About Using Collins Chassis Design

I leaning heavily towards utilizing the Collins designed chassis because I prefer the front design without the slanting compound angles of the LA-LB-LC-LD structure.
Check out the PDF file for this chassis.
See below for a picture of the overall chassis frame.

Photo of British Middie Locost

I know some of you reading my blog may not have an idea about the shape, look, size, etc. of a mid-engined Locost car, so I've posted one here to give you an idea of what I am shooting for. There are very few built middie Locosts and I happen to run across this one once while surfing around looking for info associated with Locosts.

Ordered Fiero LH Front Spindle

Part of my initial design for Neo was to use the Neon's front spindles in the rear. Since the Neon's hub is a 5x100 mm bolt design (not very typical), I needed to decide whether I was going to use a Neon front spindle with some alterations for my design or utilize another spindle that had the same hub bolt pattern. It so happens that spindle for the Chevorlet Chevette and Pontiac Fiero (actually same spindle) has the same bolt pattern and is also a highly respected front spindle when building scratch built cars. The spindle is designed specifically for a RWD car and this fits very well with my utilization of the spindle in the Neo.

I ordered (1) left hand 1986 Fiero front spindle today for $15 and about $10 for S&H. If you don't know about Car-Parts.com check this website out because it links to several "junk yards" (used vehicle parts) around the country and most will ship small to medium parts to you for a reasonable fee.

Why did I order only one? I am going to use the one spindle to get measurements so that I can begin designing the front suspension a-arms. I plan on starting to use Staniforth's string computer technique, but will eventually move to using a software program built to simulate suspension components and their respective measurements in relation to the car and the ground.

Gentlemen, start your engines.....

After a few months, O.K. more than a few months, about 12-14 months actually I have been in the pre-design (dreaming) mode and I have finally decided to move forward in 2007 to begin building Neo.

What is Neo? Neo is the name I have given to my future creation. It is a Locost type car that is based on a mid-engine placement versus the usual and typical front engine placement. I plan on using a front-wheel drive Dodge/Plymouth Neon 1st generation donor car to help build the Neo. I plan on using the Neon's engine/transmission (manual), front spindles, front brakes, pedals, instrument cluster, wheels (at first) and any other parts that ae usuable in my build.

Neo means "new" and I would like the help of the North American Locost community to put together a decent reproducible design for a midde (mid-engine) Locost car since there are so many more available FWD donor cars in North America that it makes sense to have a car design like the one I am creating.

So just as the announcer starts the race by broadcasting over the loudspeakers "Gentlemen, start your engines", I'm announcing to the Internet my intentions of starting my Neo project.